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Wednesday, April 11, 2012


Perhaps an appropirate comparison would involve the OJ incident? We all realize he (former spouse) was a logical suspect and developments/evidence confirmed he was the killer. Everyone (presumably) remembers he denied every owning those "ugly ass" Bruno Mali shoes but a photo of him wearing a pair eventually surfaced.

Blacks demanded justice on their terms in the OJ matter, just as they appear to be doing in Martin-Zimmerman. I vividly recall protestors congregating outside the courthouse during OJ jury deliberations,and to this day cannot understand why they weren't dispersed, due to jury intimidation issues.

A similar event involved Jayson Williams. He was a black, retired NBA player who shot-gunned his white limo driver, supposedly during foolish gun play. He ended up with a wrist slap despite tampering with evidence and coaching witnesses. I don't recall whites attempting to influence the outcome in that killing, or blatantly biased coverage by the media.

In 2010 I researched quotes by a member of the OJ dream team, more appropriately labeled the scheme team. The results affirmed my opinion our system has a level of integrity somewhere between a Magic 8 Ball and a Ouija Board.

“The defendant wants to hide the truth because he's generally guilty"

"The defense attorney's job is to make sure the jury does not arrive at that truth."

"The jury concluded that Fuhrman planted the glove.”

Alan Dershowitz

---The man, John H. White, 54, was guilty of the second-degree manslaughter---

Many pundits expected Zimmerman to be charged with manslaughter.

"Former NY governor David Patterson commuted the imprisoned Mr. White's sentence exactly three years later".

A black governor somehow justifies a black shooter walks with a wrist slap. What are the odds of Zimmerman receiving similar treatment if convicted.

PS: the first time I attempted to post this comment the verification process stalled/hung. that never happened with the former system.

I am of the opinion that the inclusion of OJ in the argument is specious. I did not follow the case, indeed, I actively avoided it. (We muted the TV for the first 10 minutes of the local news.) Nonetheless, I believe it was misfeasance on the part of the prosecutor that harmed chances for conviction. From what I gather, there was deliberate pollution of the evidence pool on their part. If they chose to simply restrict their prosecution to evidence that was lawfully obtained and pristine I believe their chance of conviction would have been good. However, by introducing questionable material (the bloody sock) they brought in that reasonable doubt. If the police and prosecutors are willing to fabricate one piece of evidence, how are the jurors to discern the validity of other evidence?
The White case is closer to this the Zimmerman one, with some important caveats. The defendant was on his own property, not community property. The victim came to the defendant's premises, and was the one who did not "retreat." The victim was not alone, but was part of a group, and one with some part in escalating the conflict. One point of striking similarity is that both defendants claim accidental discharge of the weapon. Having handled side-arms in the military, (I wore one despite not being law enforcement or security) I can easily understand the dynamics of such an event.

It will be interesting to see if the prosecution elects to introduce highly suspect voice analysis of the telephone background screams, which impress many as having the credibility of a pet psychic.

The hollow halls of justice are a glorified dice roll. How on earth did the first Phil Spector jury hang. The Florida tot killer walked yet Scott Peterson is on death row. OJ and Robert Blake walked but were held liable for damages, and we are to believe that inconsistency was due to standards of evidence.

Anyone who has served on a jury is presumably aware of the shortcomings. I was "amused" by 12 pages of vexing jury instructions - and that only involved a petty civil dispute involving an auto accident. Comparatively speaking, Organic Chemistry and Cell Physiology finals were a cake walk.

How does this system expect to yank 12 citizens from their easy chair, office cubicle or delivery truck and expect them to absorb and apply complex principles of law which judges and forked tongue lawyers devote decades to master. Jury consultants and expert witnesses (aka hired guns) pollute the process. Virtually every courtoom proceeding is a perjury circus, with the most proficient professional liars commanding hefty fees for coaching clients in the art of subterfuge.

Mark Perlmutter, Attorney and Author, Why Lawyers (And the Rest
of Us) Lie

"...one of the systemic influences on lying in the legal
system is that lying is a norm. It's an insidious
development. We lawyers start by justifying it in
circumstances in which 'everybody does it'. Then, once
on the slippery slope of justification, we find it
easy to rationalize lying in more and more
circumstances. Eventually, it becomes so commonplace
that we're now unconscious of it."

Although this strays from the topic at hand, perhaps Dr X might find the story intriguing. Why? The father of a convicted killer refused to accept reality despite being a forensic psychologist.

The details of the case clearly establish who was guilty of the crime. The cold case prosecutor correctly identified key elements involving the cover up as extremely incriminating. Of course she didnt hesitate to advise family members of the victim, "anything is possible with a jury". This cold case was mesmerizing for several reasons; much of the evidence was missing after 9 years and the defendant's deep pockets provided high priced mouthpieces.

Unsure why I find family members in denial difficult to fathom. How can parents be eager to ignore their offspring is a killer.

"In 1996, David Coffin, Jr. was murdered in his Buckhead home, which was set afire to hide evidence of the crime. Scott Davis was initially arrested by police, but authorities found no evidence linking him to the murder and all charges were dropped. But nine years later in 2005, Davis was re-arrested for the murder and charged. After four days of jury deliberation, he was convicted and sentenced to life in prison in December 2006".

It has occurred to me relatives of killers and sociopaths may feel obligated to present a facade which does not reflect their actual feelings.

Argh. It is horrible to watch this whole thing unfold, but my middle aged female brain keeps swilling gin-and-tonics and nudging me and rudely telling me that if we went by profiling of dangerous offenders, scarcely a young male human in the world would escape being profiled as potentially dangerous, whether to himself or others. Race hasn't much to do with it.

If only middle aged gals wandered the streets at night, with all the males 15 to 28 in purdah at home, it would be a damn sight quieter. Of course, then police and reporters would be unemployed, except for sweeping up the gutters-full of gin bottles.

in a mood, evidently

"gutters-full of gin bottles"

I'm with ya.

About 15 years ago, a local black attorney was screaming "racism" because he'd apparently been profiled and pulled over.

Since I'd been profiled and subjected to some rather obnoxious treatment (a really bad good cop/bad cop play) about the same time, it made me wonder about profiling in general.

I worked in the same building as the attorney and overheard him describing his mistreatment and it sounded very much the same as mine right down to the circumstances -- we'd both pulled off the highway to make or finish a phone call.

This was way back when not everyone had a "car phone" as they were sometimes stilled called in those days. Coverage was sketchy too. I needed to finish a conversation and knew that I'd lose the signal a half mile up the road. His reason was similar.

What I think we'd both been profiled for was having a car phone, driving at night on highways "known" to be "drug corridors" and looking as if we might be waiting to meet someone.

I'm a white woman 45 years old at the time, he was a 30 year old black man. Neither of us went to jail or got a ticket or fine, though we were both threatened with being "taken down to the station". We both got angry and called their bluff, both of us knowing they really didn't have anything to justify detaining us.

I've since decided that almost all profiling is useless, but it's certainly not all based on race. I'm not sure how much time or how many resources was wasted in the other stop, but almost an hour and 3 units were wasted on mine.

It's way too easy to behave in a "suspicious" manner.

"Blacks demanded justice on their terms in the OJ matter, just as they appear to be doing in Martin-Zimmerman."

Actually, the prosecution was so hamfisted in their attempts to prove Simpson's guilt that THEY helped to get him acquitted.

"It will be interesting to see if the prosecution elects to introduce highly suspect voice analysis of the telephone background screams, which impress many as having the credibility of a pet psychic."

And if it has no credibility with the jurors it is damaging to the credibility of the legal team that presents it as evidence. In the Zimmerman trial, there is little (afaia) in the way of physical evidence. Mr. Zimmerman's vocal cords are not permanently silenced by a gunshot, so he can be compelled to offer a voice sample.


"Today there are successful applications of voice biometrics in identifying speakers by comparing a sample utterance from a tape recording, a 911 call, or a court-authorized wiretap to samples from a few suspects selected from criminal investigations or intelligence analysis. These are typically low volume, generally forensic or intelligence applications, where the analyst has hours or days to perform the identification, which is not always possible due to limited voice sample duration or quality."

from here (http://www.biometriccoe.gov/_doc/Use-Case_Committee_Report_FBI-VBS_Final_for_internet12202011.pdf)

is not proof that voice analysis is "hard science", but it's certainly not in the same category as a psychic reading.

Voice biometrics have little applicability involving a cell phone picking up background screams from a scuffle outside the confines of a dwelling. Most definitely categorized as limited sample and quality.

Shall we dare to compare the Florida incident with a Chicago event that also attracted the Jesse Posse.

The Martin supporters maintain Zimm "should have allowed the police to respond and handle the matter", while in many instances they find fault with the conduct of the police.

The Chicago incident involves police terminating the threat from a citizen who resisted arrest, but once again we see citizens demanding justice on their terms.
What don't they understand about the simple fact anyone who gets physical with a cop puts their life and safety in jeopardy.

The Martin contingent condemn Zimmerman's behavior while Jesse has (also) taken issue with Chicago cops . They maintain everyone deserves a chance at justice.

Do they want justice or the opportunity at winning the deep pocket lottery at taxpayer's expense.


Hanna’s family and their attorneys filed a federal wrongful-death suit on Dec. 13, alleging excessive force.

State Rep. Rita Mayfield from Waukegan, who is a cousin of Hanna, told the crowd, “He begged for his life — we have it on audio tape. I don’t care what you’ve done. I don’t care what your background is. Everyone deserves justice.”

A Lake County Coroner’s autopsy found that trauma, and physical and Taser restraint were contributing factors to Hanna’s death.

But reviews by the coroner and Lake County State’s Attorney Mike Waller — the latter who found the police used reasonable force — dovetailed in the assessment that Hanna would have survived the arrest had he not abused drugs and neglected his health.

Officer Brandon Yost who told investigators he punched Hanna twice in the head because, after placing him in a headlock, Hanna tried to bite and “head butt” him.


"...would have survived the arrest had he not abused drugs and neglected his health."

Good grief. Heaven help us if the standard of reasonable force in an arrest becomes "a healthy dude would have survived it".

Don't risk ending up like Hanna.

If you ever decide to attack your pregnant roommate, resulting in an encounter with cops responding to a 911 call, make them promise to perform a complete physical and blood profile before resisting arrest.

"The coroner says the multiple stuns, plus physical trauma at the hands of the officers contributed to Hanna's death along with pre-existing conditions, including drug use and hypertension".

“You have to look at all the facts and circumstances together,” Waller said. “In that recording, the police officer’s voice is very calm. One of the significant facts is Darrin Hanna had a high amount of cocaine in his system.”

How about this novel defense.......

"Hanna family attorney Muriel Collison said any cocaine in Hanna’s system had already been metabolized, meaning he had not ingested cocaine the day of the arrest".

The family was fully aware of the fact he was a drug abuser but the cops should have somehow managed to control a combative offender in such a manner to safeguard his health, regardless of the risk to their well being.

Ya know what Frank? The facts of this particular case do not matter.

The definition of "reasonable force" can not include "a healthy person would have survived it".

The reason why is that can be no legal definition of "a healthy person" or "a person who didn't take care of himself" or of "a guy like Frank Wilson".

Laws that are written too vaguely (healthy) or too specifically (Frank Wilson) will always punish more harshly than the people will ultimately stand for.

The people want equanimity in the law. Any law (no matter how wrong or right) can be enforced equally. It matters more what the law is before asking it to be enforced.

"Equality under the law" means that class or wealth or lack thereof has no bearing, not that physical strength or the ability to withstand pain and abuse or lack thereof has no meaning.

Force continuum is a logical and specific approach utilized by law enforcement.

Those who jeopardize their well being by resisting arrest while under the influence do not warrant concern or compassion.

Hanna's victim had a reasonable expectation of law enforcement nuetralizing the threat in a practical and expedient manner.

"Voice biometrics have little applicability involving a cell phone picking up background screams from a scuffle outside the confines of a dwelling. Most definitely categorized as limited sample and quality."

That is your opinion, is it not? And your opinion--unless you are actually someone works in the field--is worth exactly as much as a psychic reading.

You want to compare cases, howzabout this one:


and you might want to look at this:


Things just ain't that clear cut in meatworld.

What is preventing you from grasping the obvious fact, from moment one, my skeptical reference related ONLY to the Zimmerman situation.

April 14:
will be interesting to see if the prosecution elects to introduce highly suspect voice analysis of the telephone background screams, which impress many as having the credibility of a pet psychic

You then present info substantianting my opinion

"which is not always possible due to limited voice sample duration or quality."

But you now appear to be asserting the Florida screams are ideally suited for voice analysis.

Voice analysis is like handwriting analysis. You must FIRST have a sample of the subject in a normal speaking tone/manner to compare it to the unknown.

You should find THIS link very enlightening.

"When the exemplar is collected, the suspect is asked by the examiner to stay the same words in the same way as they were spoken by the unknown person. In other words, in a normal, natural voice.

No screaming."


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